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| H2O finish question. - Zpoxy/Shellac http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8784 |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:45 am ] |
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I'm going to do my first water based gloss finish soon. I've done a few satin. I have never poor filled. I plan to use Zpoxy. Do I shellac before or after I pore fill? I like the warm amber tone it gives with the near perfectly clear water based finish. |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:48 am ] |
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Steve Must be Before, Shellac sticks to epoxy, but not the other way round. |
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:02 am ] |
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Steve, I've had the best luck spraying KTM9 right over the Zpoxy if that's what your using and I would bet that other waterborne finish's would be compatible. I fill as usual and after sanding and making as sure as possible that everything is filled, rag on a diluted (about 50/50) solution of Zpoxy and denatured alcohol. Or to be safer, everclear. After this is wiped on sand very little with maybe 600 grit but do sand and then spray your finish. When filling your pores, you will probably have to fill a few times and sand to get all the pore's but believe me it is well worth the time to do it several times and you probably will still have some stuborn holes that can be filled with thick CA during finishing but fill them after you spray a coat but before you sand for the next one. Good luck |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:13 am ] |
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Yes fill with Zpoxy first sand lightly with 320-400p then seal with shellac. Like Russel said shellac will bond to epoxy but epoxy will not bond well over shellac. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:55 am ] |
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Thanks guys. I would have done the shellac first because I am concerned about even color. I guess the color will be even because the epoxy only fills the pores. Does the Zpoxy add a bit on amber? John, That is interesting. You use the thinned Zpoxy instead of shellac. I tried KTM9 and wasn't very happy with it. This time I am using Crystalac. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:09 am ] |
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What I do is fill complete (typ 2 applications) sand back just to wood. Make a 40% alcohol 60% Zpoxy mixture and rag-on to even the color every where. sand very lightly with 400p not exposing wood anywhere. Then seal with shellac |
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| Author: | peterm [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:44 am ] |
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Same here. Level sand and then apply thinned epoxie with denatured alcohol to make sure there is complete coverage on the entire surface. Carefull Steve, if you miss a spot and it does not get epoxie over it, it will be visible under the finish! 
I don't use shellac either, just epoxie and the finish. Good luck. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:50 am ] |
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When you sand back, do you use your RO sander or do it by hand? |
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:12 am ] |
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You can use an RO for leveling the Zpoxy but if you wipe on the final thin coat just sand lightly with a block by hand. I use about 600 for this final sanding as I don't want to snd thru or leave any scratches. |
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:29 am ] |
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Back and Sides, I use Zpoxy, do the MichaelP thinned final coat, lightly sand and finish. I don't use Zpoxy on Tops at all, I just seal with a 2lb cut of Shellac and move to finish. Mike |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:32 am ] |
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Thanks guys! Any other tips are welcome. I'll be doing 2 guitars at once - an All koa and a sitka/IE rosewood. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:43 am ] |
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Do those of you who use Nitro and Z-Poxy use any kind of sealer? Or do you just apply the Z-Poxy the same way and shoot nitro directly over it? |
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| Author: | mikev [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:11 am ] |
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I use system 3,, and I thicken with silica. It seems nobody does this.. I thought it filled the pores better and since it didn't run it was easier for me to use. Is there any reason why this is not good? Mike |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:44 pm ] |
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Mike, I use System Three as well. No silica though. I've had great results with it. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:52 am ] |
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[QUOTE=mikev] I use system 3,, and I thicken with silica. It seems nobody does this.. I thought it filled the pores better and since it didn't run it was easier for me to use. Is there any reason why this is not good? Mike[/QUOTE] Silica is a whitish solid. It could look cloudy under finish. This hasn't been a problem for you? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:59 am ] |
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Silica, like pumice will go clear when wetted with epoxy. The only problem I have with Silica is it thickens the epoxy. If you have a med size pores it will a bit more work to get it into the pores with out bridging the pores, but not a big issue. |
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